Discussion and Questions about the new bus service
The list so far…
Q: Does it go to Keswick? A: No, but you can change at Penruddock and catch the onward bus there.
Q: When does it start and how frequently does it run? A: Every 2 hours, to start from 31st March 2025.
Q: What times does it start and end each day? A: We have put a DRAFT timetable in the documents section. Currently from Greystoke at 07:33, last bus to arrive at 17:36.
Q: If I want to go to Keswick, do I have to pay 2 x£3 fare each way, or is there a ‘through route’ fare? A: Unfortunately Stagecoach have replied to say they do not offer a through route fare. HOWEVER there are cheaper ways of buying tickets. We’re just putting together a pack of info about that now.
Q: What does this mean for the Tuesday fellrunner service? A: Fellrunner have kindly issued a statement, you can read that here
Q: Why is this not the x4/x5 service we asked for? A: Stagecoach do not feel there would be enough passengers to justify the divert and we cannot force them to include us in that service; what we can do instead is to prove demand by using the new 105 service.
Q: Has the funding that was agreed for the story homes development been used to pay for the new service? A: No. This is 100% bus Service Improvement Plan (BSIP) funding. We asked the council in January 25, if that money has to be spent within a given timeframe and are awaiting a response.
Q: Where is the bus stop for Newbiggin going to be? At or opposite any marked stop. If anyone has any suggestions for other stopping places in any of the villages, let us know. They could be evaluated for safety / suitability and potentially added.
Q: Will it be a single or a double decker? A: The minimum is 35 seats. Most likely a single decker.
Q: How can we record how many passenger trips are taken? A: Stagecoach keep records that they provide to the council on request. We will recieve that data every quarter and it will inform our BUG meetings
Q: How can we record when we took the car to Penrith, but would have used the bus had it been available? A: Good question! It’s an unmet need. The best solution we can think of is to keep a log, perhaps post it on the new facebook page.
I am concerned about road safety in the village and the need for good visibility at places where the 105 bus will be stopping. Are there any plans by the council to address this issue? I am especially concerned about the area outside the Post Office where cars are often parked in such a way as to make it difficult for folk to see and be seen by the driver as they approach around the bend outside the Village Hall. If people need to step into the road to be seen this could be dangerous.
Thankyou, I’ll add to the questions for Mark at the council (he answered some of yours for us today actually – scroll up 😊)
If the Story Homes funds allocation has not been used towards funding the new 105 service then where is the money currently and when and how will it be made use of?
Mark is checking, worth noting the wording of the 106 funding agreement was for ‘a 16 seater bus once a week’
In order to encourage use of the new service by residents of Fawn Meadows, The Thorpe and parts of Howard Park there will need to be a request stop at the lay-by to replace the one that fell down recently. Does the Council have plans to reinstate this please?
In fact, there used to be “Greystoke East” bus stop signs on both sides of the road near that layby. On the south side of the road, roughly opposite the west end of the layby, near Thorpe Bridge (that’s the one that disappeared recently after collapsing), and on the north side, by the east end of the layby (which disappeared some years ago after it similarly rotted away at the bottom).
Regarding the Tuesday Fellrunner Service (incidentally also numbered 105 which has the potential for causing confusion to passengers) and the fact that FR would not wish to run a service in direct competition with a scheduled commercial service. As the FR105 does not follow the same overall proposed route as the new Stagecoach service would this be an issue of concern to Fellrunner? The existing Tuesday bus serves Greystoke and Newbiggin it is true but it also serves the residents of Dacre, and Hoghouse Hill which the new service will not be doing when in place. This to me does not seem to constitute competition as such. Rather it provides additional choice to passengers in the wider area.
Sadly, my understanding from conversations / email exchanges with a number of the Fellrunner volunteers is there’s no doubt that their Tuesday 105 will have to be withdrawn. It’s just taken as read. The rule seems to be that they won’t try to run a bus where a commercial service is available on the same day, and almost all their 105 passengers are from Greystoke & Newbiggin.
In my experience, the bus is usually empty when it reaches Greystoke in the morning and leaves Greystoke in the afternoon, and one of the regular volunteer drivers told me he’s never picked up anyone in Dacre. Whether or not they might have wanted to stop serving Dacre, I gather their routes need to be approved by the Traffic Commissioner so any changes have time & cost overheads.
It appears I need to eat my words. I’m very pleased to say that Fellrunner have decided to continue operating their 105 Tuesday (Greystoke & Newbiggin) service and their 132A Friday (Newbiggin, not Greystoke) service, subject to future passenger numbers. See also Pam’s message below (Jan 23rd, 3:52 pm).
Thank you Bob, I’m very pleased to add a notice issued by Neil Hannah here.
On the question of recording numbers … I can’t believe we’d have to do this ourselves?! Surely the council must be tracking this themselves otherwise how on earth do they rank services for future funding? They have to know usage statistics – so can they share them with us? And if they don’t track usage how can they tell if the service is being used?!
“On such a full sea are we now afloat;
And we must take the current when it serves,
Or lose our ventures.”
(William Shakespeare , Julius Caesar)
In other words: UIOLI
I’ll be asking exactly that question at the meeting on the 23rd Jan. we need transparency about usage and how much is ‘enough’ to keep the service at the end of this tranche of funding.
Could the 9:22 from Greystoke go 2 minutes later so we can use our bus passes (From Margaret Rinder via Pam)
What does this mean for the fellrunner service? (Collated question from many conversations). Fellrunner have sent me a statement I will read out / upload).
A note on costs (from Cecilia Hewitt via Pam):
If two of us want to go to Borrowdale by bus, it’ll cost £3 each to get to Penruddock, then another £3 to Keswick, then another £3 to Stonethwaite. (£9, one way, per person = £36 for the trip). If we took a car instead, even if we had to pay for parking, the different in cost is significant.
Agree on this – the cost of us getting into Keswick and back (£24 round trip for 2) means we are likely to use this route less often than if there was a day ticket option. I now view it as an occasional treat as it’s *much cheaper to park the car at the football pitch for the day.
I have asked Mark to send us details of a cheaper way to buy tickets. we also heard (in the pub afterwards) about a discounted way of buying tickets. More details to follow when I have them.
It is encouraging to learn that Fellrunner will continue to operate through Greystoke and district on Tuesdays. A question for both Mark and Fellrunner regarding Tuesdays: Both services are numbered 105 (a legacy it is assumed from the days when a regular daily service ran under that number) with not entirely dissimilar departure and arrival times being involved. Obvious which is which and which one operates the capped £3 fare system etc.? Well to some, yes but not necessarily to new users and visitors who might find themselves on a longer more roundabout route travelling via Dacre and Hoghouse Hill when they were planning and expecting a short trip into town. Hopefully this issue will be addressed in some appropriate way.
It would be useful to have an expanded version of the new 105 service timetable which highlights the location of all the stops along the route including any which might be “by request” only etc.